Comments for On the Road to Emmaus http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog theological and devotional musings by Richard Liantonio Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:41:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on Why Greek Matters (Part 4) – The Lamb is Worthy (Revelation 5) by Adam Beattie http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/2012/04/why-greek-matters-part-4-the-lamb-is-worthy/comment-page-1/#comment-20579 Adam Beattie Mon, 16 Apr 2012 14:41:32 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?p=1003#comment-20579 I guess my one question would be if the completed sentence "Jesus is worthy" could be mere shorthand for all the reasons ascribed in the Bible? I understand the stated danger of not having a semi-decent reason to back up the sentiment, but it does save the trouble of tracking down every reference to the worthiness of Jesus in the Bible when answering the question, "Why did you join that silly prayer room?" I guess my one question would be if the completed sentence “Jesus is worthy” could be mere shorthand for all the reasons ascribed in the Bible? I understand the stated danger of not having a semi-decent reason to back up the sentiment, but it does save the trouble of tracking down every reference to the worthiness of Jesus in the Bible when answering the question, “Why did you join that silly prayer room?”

]]> Comment on Why Greek Matters (Part 3) – Into the Age by Richard http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/2012/04/why-greek-matters-part-3-into-the-age/comment-page-1/#comment-20502 Richard Fri, 13 Apr 2012 04:28:40 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?p=994#comment-20502 Hey Tom - great question! One of the tricky parts of biblical interpretation is evaluating whether a detail has interpretational significance or not, that is, whether it alters the meaning. Just as we need to be aware of details significant to interpretation that we may be missing, we also want to be cautious about over-interpreting details. Though I have not looked specifically into this verse in detail, my sense (open to change!) is that the plural "heavens" is not a detail of interpretational significance. In Hebrew the word "heaven" is always a plural word (strangely the word "water," "Jerusalem," "God," and others are also plural...or to be more precise with the exception of God, these words are "dual"). There have been interpretations given of this phenomenon, such as multiple "heavens," the waters above the heavens and the waters below, the heavenly Jerusalem and the earthly Jerusalem, and a plurality of persons in God (i.e. the Trinity). These interpretations do not really pan out for a number of reasons. As a matter of example, if someone poured water into a cup, in Hebrew they would say it in plural - they poured "waters" into the cup. They certainly did not think they were pouring the waters from above the heavens and below into their cup. When someone said they were going to walk to Jerusalem they would use the plural, not at all trying to say they were walking to both the heavenly and earthly Jerusalem (quite a difficult feat!). When a bird is said to be flying in the "heavens" they were not saying that it was flying in the "three different heavens" simultaneously. Since these words are consistently used in plural, it is much more indicative that they are simply idiomatic, meaning, for some unknown reason, in Hebrew these words are used in the plural merely as a feature of the language. It would be different if sometimes the Hebrew would say "heaven" or "one of the heavens" but it never does. Furthermore, contrary to popular belief, the Old Testament does not divide "the heavens" into three distinct spheres (i.e., "first," "second," and "third," heavens). There is no clear and explicit delineation of this view anywhere in the Old Testament. There is obviously varied use of the term "heavens" but there is no interest in divvying it up in neat clear compartments. This belief developed much later and appears for the first time in certain versions of the Apocalypse of Moses and also the Book of Enoch, which date to around the first century BC or later. There being "three heavens" was not "standard Jewish belief," in fact when ancient Jewish writers do give the number of "heavens" its not always the same - sometimes three, sometimes seven, sometimes eight. Point being, my sense as to why "heavens" is plural in Matthew 5 is simply because the Greek throughout the NT reflects the fact that the writers spoke Hebrew and they are carrying over features of Hebrew language into their Greek unconsciously. Hey Tom – great question! One of the tricky parts of biblical interpretation is evaluating whether a detail has interpretational significance or not, that is, whether it alters the meaning. Just as we need to be aware of details significant to interpretation that we may be missing, we also want to be cautious about over-interpreting details. Though I have not looked specifically into this verse in detail, my sense (open to change!) is that the plural “heavens” is not a detail of interpretational significance. In Hebrew the word “heaven” is always a plural word (strangely the word “water,” “Jerusalem,” “God,” and others are also plural…or to be more precise with the exception of God, these words are “dual”). There have been interpretations given of this phenomenon, such as multiple “heavens,” the waters above the heavens and the waters below, the heavenly Jerusalem and the earthly Jerusalem, and a plurality of persons in God (i.e. the Trinity). These interpretations do not really pan out for a number of reasons. As a matter of example, if someone poured water into a cup, in Hebrew they would say it in plural – they poured “waters” into the cup. They certainly did not think they were pouring the waters from above the heavens and below into their cup. When someone said they were going to walk to Jerusalem they would use the plural, not at all trying to say they were walking to both the heavenly and earthly Jerusalem (quite a difficult feat!). When a bird is said to be flying in the “heavens” they were not saying that it was flying in the “three different heavens” simultaneously. Since these words are consistently used in plural, it is much more indicative that they are simply idiomatic, meaning, for some unknown reason, in Hebrew these words are used in the plural merely as a feature of the language. It would be different if sometimes the Hebrew would say “heaven” or “one of the heavens” but it never does. Furthermore, contrary to popular belief, the Old Testament does not divide “the heavens” into three distinct spheres (i.e., “first,” “second,” and “third,” heavens). There is no clear and explicit delineation of this view anywhere in the Old Testament. There is obviously varied use of the term “heavens” but there is no interest in divvying it up in neat clear compartments. This belief developed much later and appears for the first time in certain versions of the Apocalypse of Moses and also the Book of Enoch, which date to around the first century BC or later. There being “three heavens” was not “standard Jewish belief,” in fact when ancient Jewish writers do give the number of “heavens” its not always the same – sometimes three, sometimes seven, sometimes eight.

Point being, my sense as to why “heavens” is plural in Matthew 5 is simply because the Greek throughout the NT reflects the fact that the writers spoke Hebrew and they are carrying over features of Hebrew language into their Greek unconsciously.

]]> Comment on Why Greek Matters (Part 3) – Into the Age by Tom Cole http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/2012/04/why-greek-matters-part-3-into-the-age/comment-page-1/#comment-20488 Tom Cole Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:57:54 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?p=994#comment-20488 Richard, excellent article. Now how about an article on "Blessed are the poor in spirit for their is the kingdom of the heavens (plural). The Greek is plural for the word "heaven". I've always wondered what that could mean. Richard, excellent article. Now how about an article on “Blessed are the poor in spirit for their is the kingdom of the heavens (plural). The Greek is plural for the word “heaven”. I’ve always wondered what that could mean.

]]> Comment on Why Greek Matters (Part 3) – Into the Age by Richard http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/2012/04/why-greek-matters-part-3-into-the-age/comment-page-1/#comment-20451 Richard Wed, 11 Apr 2012 04:01:12 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?p=994#comment-20451 thanks Matt! thanks Matt!

]]> Comment on Why Greek Matters (Part 3) – Into the Age by Matt http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/2012/04/why-greek-matters-part-3-into-the-age/comment-page-1/#comment-20440 Matt Tue, 10 Apr 2012 14:55:06 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?p=994#comment-20440 Awesome post Richard! Awesome post Richard!

]]> Comment on New Testament Greek Course in KC by Richard http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/new-testament-greek-class/comment-page-1/#comment-20427 Richard Tue, 10 Apr 2012 06:02:26 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?page_id=1456#comment-20427 There is no hard deadline, I will just have to limit class size based on the room size. There is no hard deadline, I will just have to limit class size based on the room size.

]]> Comment on New Testament Greek Course in KC by Kay http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/new-testament-greek-class/comment-page-1/#comment-20415 Kay Mon, 09 Apr 2012 19:08:50 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?page_id=1456#comment-20415 I know it says it's "first come first serve" but is there an absolute deadline on when the payment/decision must be made? A lot depends on what I end up doing after I graduate (since this does require 6hr/wk) and I don't know when that will be figured out. I know it says it’s “first come first serve” but is there an absolute deadline on when the payment/decision must be made? A lot depends on what I end up doing after I graduate (since this does require 6hr/wk) and I don’t know when that will be figured out.

]]> Comment on Something Strange is Happening… by Jordan Bergren http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/2012/04/something-strange-is-happening/comment-page-1/#comment-20387 Jordan Bergren Sun, 08 Apr 2012 05:35:29 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?p=1879#comment-20387 Such good revelation of God. There is so much depth to the life of Jesus. Such good revelation of God. There is so much depth to the life of Jesus.

]]> Comment on Why Greek Matters (Part 1) – The Joy of Jesus (Matthew 28:9) by Stephen Nielsen http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/2012/03/why-greek-matters-part-1-the-joy-of-jesus/comment-page-1/#comment-20355 Stephen Nielsen Fri, 06 Apr 2012 13:43:53 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?p=107#comment-20355 Richard, I recently signed up to receive all of your posts. I look forward to reading them. I studyed a little Greek, but not enough to accually ready it--I have forgotten it all. But I do appreciate your study of it. I does matter. Richard,
I recently signed up to receive all of your posts. I look forward to reading them. I studyed a little Greek, but not enough to accually ready it–I have forgotten it all. But I do appreciate your study of it. I does matter.

]]> Comment on Can I Understand the Bible Without Knowing Greek??? by Why Greek Matters (Part 1) – The Joy of Jesus (Matthew 28:9) | On the Road to Emmaus http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/2010/04/can-i-understand-the-bible-without-knowing-greek/comment-page-1/#comment-19982 Why Greek Matters (Part 1) – The Joy of Jesus (Matthew 28:9) | On the Road to Emmaus Tue, 27 Mar 2012 05:19:58 +0000 http://www.richardliantonio.com/blog/?p=1479#comment-19982 [...] I actually need to learn that to understand the Bible?” Of course, the answer is no (though click here for a somewhat fuller answer). The modern English translations are reliable enough to give you understanding of the [...] [...] I actually need to learn that to understand the Bible?” Of course, the answer is no (though click here for a somewhat fuller answer). The modern English translations are reliable enough to give you understanding of the [...]

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